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Harley-Davidson's new eight-valve Big Twin in 107-inch variant.
Podcast-So, you may have heard the vicious rumors going around that Harley-Davidson dealerships are voiding warranties if you install aftermarket exhaust, remove catalytic converters, or install electronic fuel injection (EFI) tuners on your new 2017 model equipped with the Milwaukee-Eight motor. The unreliable motorcycle forums are full of bad information because nobody actually researches the matter. Well, I did that for you and talked to many sources inside Harley-Davidson dealerships.
Some of these rumors got started because recently the Screamin Eagle Super Tuner was banned by the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) and Harley-Davidson was fined $12 million dollars.
So, nothing is new with the new 2017 Milwaukee-Eight 107 or 114 ci motors in regards to warranties. For years, all Harley owners have been at risk of having a warranty voided for installing aftermarket exhaust, removing catalytic converters, or adding EFI tuners. Clearly, dealerships are not supposed to remove catalytic converters, but it's fine to install new Vance & Hines or other aftermarket head pipes without them? The confusion goes on from there.
The fact of the matter is that you're still at risk and internal Harley-Davidson policies have not changed. But, Harley-Davidson leaves much discretion to its dealerships to handle matters such as this.
So, what does this really mean for you as a Harley-Davidson owner? Make sure you have a very open line of communication with your local dealership service writer and mechanics. Ask them point blank if they are in the business of voiding your motorcycle warranty if you change pipes, intake, or add an EFI tuner.
I can tell you that most will not void your warrant and have not voided warranties for years as it's just bad business all the way around. Especially at these times when Indian and Victory are banging on Harley's doors trying to get a bigger chunk of the market.
If your dealership says they will actually void your Harley warranty for such things then never step foot in that dealership again and tell all your Harley buddies. That would be a personal choice by that particular dealership and I'd make certain they got very little business.
You'll have to listen in to this podcast episode to get the full scoop and find out what other things we learned and other tips we give!
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My question is tunner going to affect older model.Also I was thinking this might be a loophole instead of getting the warranty from Harley getting it from another company.I like your show u guys are great. Alex from Las vegas
I don’t think it will even effect new models. I really think it’s going to vary dealership to dealership like it always has. This is not new policy from Headquarters. Each dealership has had direction to do this for years, but they choose how they handle it. I think things will be the same. As always, if your dealership is going to do this then go elsewhere. Rock on
My 2017 Ultra Limited was flagged by Harley-Davidson because I purchased aftermarket exhaust as part of the bike deal. They are sending a representitive from Milwaukee to my local dealership to visually inspect the bike to ensure the parts have not been installed in order to remove the flag. This flag, if not removed, will void certain parts of the warranty. If I had not purchased the exhaust as part of the bike deal it would have never been flagged and probably would not have been a problem. You may or may not ever have a problem with the warranty but it is a big gamble on a 30K dollar bike.
Doug,
This is good information. Thank you for sharing. We will have more podcasts on this topic.
Thanks,
Lurch
I would blame your dealership for that. It was up to their digression to flag your vin.
I went to the dealership to get the correct information they said Harley Davidson has all ready voided warranty repair for exhaust even mufflers being changed. If you think this is bullshit look in your Owners manual which you do not get until after your purchase. 2018 manual
So did rhey void your warrenry or not I want vance and hines not the crapoy screaming eagle but I cant afford to void my 7 yr extended warrenty
Doug,
We’ve found that it varies from dealer to dealer. We suggest you check with you local HD dealer.
Ride Safe & Ride Often!
~ Matt Couchman
Law Abiding Biker™ Team
Helping, connecting, entertaining, and inspiring as many bikers as we can worldwide!
buying 2017 Limited, with r.c. exhaust, will it matter, or make a difference if I do a tuner / air cleaner upgrade or not?
Preacher man,
We always recommend remapping anytime an intake our exhaust component is changed.
~Lurch
Bought a new M8 King. Oil pump went south and had piston slap. I put a FP3 and V&H Eliminators on the bike the day after I bought it. Harley Voided the engine warranty and lost a customer at the same time. The FP3 did not kill the engine. Harleys poor engineering and production skills killed the mill. So if you choose to spend money with Harley don’t mod the engine at all unless you buy there over priced, under preforming junk parts. Dealer good will repaired my bike.
That sounds like a specific dealership issue like we mention in the podcast episode. I’d steer clear of that particular dealership and let it be known. Our local dealerships would not void for such. Thanks for commenting.
The dealer was great! It was the MoCo that were idiots. The dealer goodwill repaired the bike out of there pocket. MoCo washed there hands of there junk production.
Beware of any modding that could effect how Harley kiss’s epa behind.
I’m sorry but you’re talking about how things were before the consent decree. Harley is required under the decree to void the entire power train warranty, if non compliant mods are made. HD does not want to incur more fines and possible jail time for its executives that are parties to the consent decree. Therefore, they are policing their dealers like never before. There are but two choices: Leave it stock or use HD parts and have them dealer installed.
Good info Bob. I will tell you that as explained in the episode, that varies greatly dealership to dealership and what they actually enforce and/or check. Our dealership is great and they would never even think about voiding for simple mods.
Another choice is NOT to purchase Harley Davidson…
Magnuson–Moss Warranty Act
http://uscode.house.gov/view.xhtml?req=granuleid%3AUSC-prelim-title15-chapter50&edition=prelim
Harley has to prove that the aftermarket mod caused the failure. They cannot arbitrarily void your warranty for any reason.
Correct. We talked about Magnuson-Moss in this very Podcast episode-Listen in for more!! Thanks for commenting. Ride safe
I recently bought 2018 heritage special when purchasing no one said before the purchase how you could not change the exhaust. Nothing about all the changes I wonder if we started a class action law suit to justify all the thousands of dollars we paid. This is going to hurt there sales if I wanted a BMW I would have bought one…. At least let the buyer be educated before the purchase.
Well I can tell you that the rumor is 100% true, G*d damnit! I just got off the phone from the dealership. Here’s my story.
After Less than a year of riding my 2017 Street Glide Special and putting 9,000 miles on it the rear head gasket started blowing oil like Niagra Falls. Took it in to get it checked out at the dealership and they said the gasket had slipped and screwed up the piston. They also told me Harley will not cover the repairs under warranty because I put the aftermarket pipes on it and they required a differed tune on the bike. I chose the Vance & Hines Fuelpak. Is there one Harley on the road that doesn’t have aftermarket pipes on? I haven’t seen one. This is just a way to screw their own customers out of paying for warranty issues. It’s not a dealership issue. Warranty issues have to be approved by Harley. They tell me that they only started doing this a couple of years ago. This is a warning to all Harley owners and the manufacturers of aftermarket exhausts and tuners. HARLEY WILL DENY WARRANTY CLAIMS IF YOU PUT AFTERMARKET PIPES ON YOUR BIKE! I suspect this knowledge will put a dent into sales of these products and the manufacturers will be none too happy. Get ready for lawsuits MOCO! Get the word out.
That sucks bro! I can tell you that it is a dealership to dealership decision. They absolutely don’t have to report such things. My dealership would never do that to me. I’m so sorry you had that experience. I’d never support that dealership again.
They don’t have to report it now. When your dealer plugs the computer up to your bike it a automatically flags your VIN and voids your warranty. It’s not the dealer.
I just bought a 2019 Road Glide special with the 114 m8. i ordered rims , bars etc, and of course i wanted a good looking 2 into 1 pipe. Wanted a 2 into 1 side turn out. The parts guys immediately told me, that only the SS 2 into 1 sidewinder was epa approved, and was the only 2 into 1 pipe that would not void my warranty. Really like the DD fat cat but, no can do per the dealer. They stated that the diagnostic for stage one to change the pipe, will automatically flag the vin, and void your warranty, and there’s no way around it. The mentioned that Harley was fined by the EPA for these same violations, and now any after market exhaust,tuners, etc., must be EPA approved not to void the warranty.
Wow… l did not know this…. I’m picking up my 2018 fatbob on Saturday that my dealer got from another dealer because they didn’t have one of my flavor in stock, he called me and said he found one but it has a set of S&S slip ons, I asked about the factory ones but was told they where not available. This sucks…
i am in the same boat Leonard , i just bought the 2018 road glide and its too quiet i was thinking of the cobra neighbor hater slip-ons myself
Buy slip ons of your choice and keep your stock slip ons untill warrenty is out. If bike has issues put stock slip ons back on untill you get it fixed under warrenty. Once warrenty is over then go get you a good tuner and head pipe and ride on.
But only thing i would touch is the slip on mufflers untill warrenty is up. Even if you have a cool dealership you may have to have warrenty work that requires prior approval from a hd rep. If this happens they will send a tech from hd to whatever dealership you got your bike at for warrenty work and if they see a tuner or pipes the dealership wont get paid for warrenty work. This is all a buncha bs thanks to the epa and harley.
Spoke to my dealer in PA and they state that Harley Davidson has access to the service records and periodically scrubs the service records looking for dealers installing tuners, exhaust etc. to 17 and 18 and i’m sure now 19 bikes other then the HD Street tuner.
Won’t be buying Milwaukee 8
I will keep my 103 2015 road glide special ,gloss black with nice pin strips.
By the way 93 up. Dyno by dealer vans and Hines complete exhaust and screaming eagle programmer.
Awesome. 2 bad my 5th new he. Purchase since 2002.
Today (11-14-2018), I asked my service writer about the converter, EFI mods, etc. He specifically said “anything other than Screaming Eagle equipment will void the warranty as will removing the cat converter”. These owners have stores all over the country.
Safe assumption, there are a pile of stores that would have the same policy.
Yup, like we say in the podcast episode………t will vary from dealership to dealership. I would not go to a dealership that would do that. That would be the last of my business with them.
Anxiously awaiting the latest podcast on Harley warranty and how aftermarket parts/tunes affect them.
I have a picture of a warranty denial from Harley Davidson. My tuner sent it to me. The dealership now scans every M8 motorcycle in for service (warranty or not) for changes to the ECM and instantly voids any warranty. Source: The local dealership
So they have this pretty much wrapped up now. I’d expect a big decline in aftermarket parts unless they get The Motor Company approval. (and that’ll probably never happen).
It appears that we are stuck with Screamin’ Eagle or bone stock. I’ll be taking my CVO mufflers with Fulsac baffles off my motor and I guess buy a Screamin’ Eagle exhaust. I’m too skeert of losing my warranty and extended warranty. I’ve enjoyed over $7,000 worth of warranty repairs on my 2013 Limited on the $1,400 cost of the extended warranty. Can’t risk that.
I bought my 2017 Ultra Limited new and at just under 2000 miles the oil pump failed. Because I have a Stage 2 motor with the V&H Fuelpac, V&H pipes, headers, Arlen Ness air intake, and a dealer-installed Harley torque cam, the dealer would not warranty the problem. Like many others here have said, the dealer blamed Harley for not honoring the warranty and said they (the dealer) could not absorb that cost. That’s after being a loyal customer for 38 years and several new bikes. It cost me over $600 for the new “redesigned” generation four oil pump that Harley clearly recognizes as a systemic problem with their M8 motors. Even the dealer admitted that nothing I did caused the problem. For $600, I wasn’t about to launch a lawsuit, but I sure would jump on a class action suit if started. And maybe I’d be riding an Indian before it ended.
That just sucks
Bought a new 114 Fat Bob last year. Dealer suggested various non Harley exhausts, supplied and fitted TBR 2-1 and FP3 fuelpak and was set up before collection. Causes no warranty issues in the uk at any dealerships as i am aware.
Yah, it is definitely a US thing it seems.
I just bought a new ’19 RG Special. I want to plug in my FP3 that already has used its one time only remap on my previous bike. It is impossible to change anything on the M8 motor with this tuner. I just want to use it to get “sensor data” which is a nice feature of the FP3. It can Bluetooth eng temp, eng oil press, (BTW, it irritates the crap out of me that the newer bikes don’t give you an actual value for the oil pressure. Just “OK” or “not OK” as if we’re some kind of deuchebag that can’t understand real numbers!, My ’15 RG Special gave the actual oil pressure value). and a long list of other info to your phone. Cant get a straight answer out of any of the half dozen HD service depts. I have asked as to if simply plugging in the FP3 will void the warranty. Makes no sense if it does since it has zero effect on the ECM. It’s like plugging your car into the computer at Autozone to see what the check eng light is all about. I’ve looked all over the internet to see if anyone has gotten an answer to this question. Zilch
The FP3 does leave a thumbprint on the M8 ecm. All aftermarket tuners do. Whenever the unit is plugged in to the Digital Technician at the dealership, the VIN is automatically flagged in the database. So, then whenever your bike is brought in for any kind of warranty repair, REGARDING THE POWERTRAIN, it will automatically be denied. This just started recently, as H-D is apparantly cracking down. The dealership doesn’t have a choice in the matter, regardless of what they tell you.
So I just picked up a used 17 fatbob with only 800 miles on it. Bike is still bone stock. I want to start stage 1 upgrades but have my own warranty concerns. Is this warranty issue only with the m8? Will my 103ho TC get flagged? I was gonna pull the baffles today as a start just to get this thing to stop purring like a kitty cat but dont want to find myself up a creek.
Anthony,
It seems to be a bigger issue with the M8, but your ECM on your 103 will also show that you’ve upgraded to a stage 1. It honestly depends on your local HD dealer. We always recommend that you see what their policy is.
Ride Safe & Ride Often!
~ Matt Couchman
Law Abiding Biker™ Team
Helping & connecting as many bikers as we can worldwide!
Are these warranty issues being discussed above still going on with HD and some dealers??? New HD owner and want to add pipes and tuner.
Thanks,
John
Yup, it will be this way from hear on out.